Thread: Any good places to buy landrace seeds?

TGR... Thanks for all that info, dude! It seems I have a bit more reading to do than I initially thought, lol. Like I said, I'm still really new to this... But I have an eagerness to learn, so I always appreciate any input. Even if it's telling me I've been misinformed, and need to get my info straightened out.

I'm still a bit confused, though... When I search for info on landraces, I get a lot of similar results to this:

"According to the definition in the encyclopedia of plant genetic resources, a landrace is an early, cultivated form of a crop species, evolved from a wild population, and generally composed of a heterogeneous mixture of genotypes. Therefore a cannabis landrace is a marijuana plant that has been geographically isolated from the possibility of cross-breeding with any other marijuana strain of a similar plant species."

Marijuana Wikipedia : Landrace Marijuana Strains Explained

If that's the case, that would make them more stable, no? I know there will be some variation (there always is - even if it's just minor differences), but generally they should produce offspring that are all very similar, overall... Due to the geographic isolation.

Most of the results I get when I search are similar to what I quoted above... So do you have links to other resources that say otherwise? Or maybe go a little bit more in depth? I'm not saying your wrong... I just wanna see where you're getting your info, so I can read up on it, too (like I said, most of the results I get say similar to what I quoted... so if they're all lying to me (or if I'm just misunderstanding), I wanna see it, lol).

Thanks again for the info, dude. I appreciate you taking the time to respond.

EDIT: Forgot to respond to the fem'd seeds comment... I didn't say they were impossible to breed with, just that they're not the greatest... And I also said that's just what I've read/heard (various message boards, growers, and breeders... as well as just websites with general info). To me, it just seems unnatural (I know some plants will do it automatically, if left without being pollinated... I'm moreso against the commercial methods of dousing the plants with acid, or stressing them to the point where they hermi).

Quote: Originally Posted by The Grim Reefer

Evenin lads, just gonna jump into the middle of the convo with some of my own opinions, don’t mean to step on any1's toes, just another growers opinion, doesn’t and should be taken as carrying any more weight than any other john doe posting in the internet


Feminised seeds are never 100% like the parents, I understand what you’re saying m8, it’s just I don’t want it misread by others (or else I misunderstood what you’re saying and I am the 1 misreading ). If you were to go overseas there are ways to bring and send clones. This is done by most major seed companies, and I know of quite a few American clone only strains available throughout Europe, that are still the clones, and not reworked up from seed lines. Not the safest method though by any means, but it is possible. Worth taking the risk? hmmm suppose that depends on the clone in question now doesn’t it lol

If you didn’t want to do something like this, micro propagation (tissue culturing) would be your best bet. This is something in its infancy with cannabis, though it is widely used in other plant species. It would however require a good bit of research, and that may not be conducive to every1’s situation (be you constrained by time, or supplies or whatever), but it’s probably the safest method, and yields the best results


Fem's not good for breeding .... Can u explain your thinking behind that. I'm not trying to call you out and demand an explanation now cottons m8, it just that doesn’t make any sense to me. Don’t feel as though you’re in the wrong and anything though m8, a vast majority of growers would hold your viewpoint rather than mine ...... but taking into account bottle necking a gene pool and losing hybrid vigour, feminising/selfing however you'd like to call it, can most definitely be used in breeding programs IMO. They aren’t the be all and end all; I don’t mean it should be used by every breeder worldwide, or that it should be the be all and end all result to any breeding program. It should be considered a tool in the breeding process and no more.

It’s also an extremely natural process...... Specifically if you go back and look at soma’s rodelization method of obtaining feminised seeds. This is using processes the plant does itself. You are not really doing anything except managing to not harvest a plant and smoke it lol. Now if you take this further and begin to use chemical or hormonal methods, that’s still using the same underlying natural process that’s in the plant. Now ethical debates can be had over whether you should do this or not, but as with anything to do with ethics, that changes from person to person, and I’m not here to argue ethics . Personal beliefs, there is no specific right or wrong answer.


You are wrong lol sorry m8, u left it wide open I had to respond with that!! ........From what I’ve seen, wild ganja that hasn’t been farmed, is one of the most unstable forms of the plant you will ever come across. I don’t know if you’ve ever seen wild ganja, but this it is most certainly not uniform in any way. There are some very interesting phenotypes that can be found within it though. I’m not trying to imply you ignore it.

The Kush mountain range area is massive m8, and cannabis found there varies HUGELY, I think this must be a myth, because they definitely do not exhibit all the same characteristics, there are huge variations in strains found there.

Half assed breeders over generations from the same region is basically what we call landraces today , they've been worked by the local population into something workable. The uniformity found is due to the fact that up until recently (world time), people haven’t been able to travel very easily, and so genetics didn’t travel as far (what is today by some considered contamination of a gene pool)

Having said that, pollen can carry on wind for a loooooooooooong distance



Bingo , that or be lucky enough to know some1 who is going and is willing to send you some, at least that’s how I feel m8. If you obtaining seeds from a seed bank, it’s nearly inevitable they are going to have been worked in some way by that seed bank. After how long do you stop considering a strain a landrace and start considering it an inbred line? (This is also debateable, as to what do you even consider an inbred line). And besides all this who’s to say the seed bank made the right choices initially in picking up those strains. Heading out to the region, talking to the farmers, and sampling the wares yourself will yield much higher results in my opinion.... provided you’re willing to do the work (which judging by your posts your seem more than willing to )


I disagree, especially in regard to some of the more tropical sativa's. You can grow em, but your won’t reach their potential by any means. I don’t like linking to other forums, but there is a thread over on icmag called the ultimate sativa thread (cheers NL for initially directing me towards there) The info in there will most definitely help to boost your chances of trying to recreate a workable environment, but I still feel that alot of outdoor strains require some breeding to adapt fully to an indoor environment. Particularly to the lights we use..... Now upcoming technologies such as plasma lights may change all this, or the may not, but I’m not including them at the moment .....

Now again your faced with the decision of how long before a landrace is considered an inbred line. You could also go through the process using open pollination, but this will add considerably to the breeding program.

Of course i could easily be wrong, the above isn’t fact by any means, just we hold different viewpoints on this particular topic. Hopefully someday in the future we’ll be able to burn 1 together and you’ll be able to show me a room an equatorial sativa’s thriving indoors . I surely would enjoy that m8


Ruderalis is a species of cannabis, not a strain. I don’t doubt you know this already, and this post is merely to serve as reference to those reading, when i first started reading into all this i was so confused by the lack of clarification that people take for granted when they have knowledge on a subject, not in anyway meant to try reflect a lack on knowledge on your behalf


I tried to keep my replies short and to the point, that’s not meant to make my answers curt or to try and impose a sense of definitiveness, with the majority of the above it’s based solely on my opinion. The major problem I find with written text is once you have it down it looks very black and white. If you physically talk to some1 you'll notice them flick back and forth between arguments, and even contradict themselves, this is by trying to put into words the thought process behind a subject. You lose a lot of this by written text. A lot of people find this better due to the fact we have more "facts", I think we are losing a great deal however as thought processes aren’t and never should be black and white. Always read others perspectives and always form your own opinion rather than blindly following. I find people place more emphasis as well on posts that seem to contain a lot of text or ‘info’, please don’t take the above in that manner, i’ve just been absent for a while and have more to respond to than those who are here daily 

Grim, holy shit were you been my ninja? aint seen you in a while man! glad your posting again
your correct..if theres a will theres a way..and it has verything to do with the clone only in question lol
i'd stick this one up my ass if i had to lol no homo lol
but i guess, what i was trying to get across, was the reasoning of fem seeds..just an example..
i guess i should say..shed some light on the right reasons to breed fems
vs just breeding them for profit gains..but your correct..
so far..ive yet to get a cut from overseas and with the new x ray shit out..i dont see me tryin it lol
foookers got us hemmed up..lol
so logicly, id fem it and get it as close as possible..
i understand that it will never be 100% the same after inbreed/making fem..but its about the closets your going to get ..lol and it still wouldnt be tainted by any cross or other strains genetics..so the original pheno type could possibly be found again .
man , glad your back


cotton..
wiki is misleading..

try to look at it like this in a way..just a simple wa for me to explain it..
got any brothers or sisters? do they look exactly like you?
unless identical twins then no right?
thats variation..
stable breed would be..almost every one of your brothers and sisters would indeed, not only look, but act like you, person to person..
they could be all the same race, but theres variation... without breeding it stable of course your self.

hope that makes sense,..i'm really baked right now lol

dont be hatin on auto's shag lol hahaa
ive actually grown a few that were better than reg stock from some companies...
il diavolo took me back 15 years..when creeper bud was still around a buch..but the most cherry flavorfull shit i've smoked in a while to boot.
sour 60 been worked out by mdanzig for 7 years using some really bad ass genetics.
la diva is a great one.
blue hemi will straight melt in your mouth, and stick to your hand.

Quote: Originally Posted by custom

cotton..
wiki is misleading..

try to look at it like this in a way..just a simple wa for me to explain it..
got any brothers or sisters? do they look exactly like you?
unless identical twins then no right?
thats variation..
stable breed would be..almost every one of your brothers and sisters would indeed, not only look, but act like you, person to person..
they could be all the same race, but theres variation... without breeding it stable of course your self.

hope that makes sense,..i'm really baked right now lol

I know wiki is misleading. Thus why I put in the part about "most other sources say the same".

I know there's going to be some variation. Even in identical twins, there is still variation (it's not much, but it is definitely there)... This is why I said "overall they will be similar" (never said identical).

You see it in the animal kingdom, too... Not just plants... When a species gets isolated (say on an island)... After many generations it becomes it's own species, and all the offspring are very similar.

A good example of this would be the golden lancehead. It's a species of snake that's only found on 1 island. It's a pit viper, so it's related to other pit vipers (like the rattle snake, puff adder, etc)... But it's a species all its own. While there is a small amount of variation within this species (some may be a little longer, some may be a little shorter... there may be very slight color differences), they are all pretty much uniform.

...And that's all I was saying about landraces... When a strain is geographically isolated, after many generations, the offspring will be very similar to each other. Yes, there will be differences... But there's differences even in identical twins... I meant it more in a way that the wide range of variation you'd get, say from a sativa/indica hybrid that you've taken to F2's (for example) will not be present... That, for the most part, the landraces will be fairly consistent with one another.

Again... I'm just going based on what I've read (which is more than just wiki, I was just using that as an example of what a lot of the sites I've checked out have said - most of which are more respected than wiki, lol).

So if you guys have links to some good info, I'd definitely want to check them out. I'm not saying you're wrong, or anything even close to it... Just that we may be misunderstanding each other... I'm not always the best at getting out what I'm trying to say, so that could be where it's happening, lol. I never thought they'd be completely uniform. Even in a "stable" strain, there's always going to be slight variations. That's just the nature of DNA. There's an infinite combination of AT and CG... So even traits that haven't been seen for a hundred generations can mysteriously reappear (thus the reason white people can have black babies, and vice-versa).

Didnt say anything against autos.... I mentioned what they use to create them but that is it and that was many replies ago....

that happens when white bitches cheat! lol hahaha

i just didnt want you to think that they couldnt possibly be breed with anything else...
word travels fast and even the studies say there cultivated,..well that tells me there cross breed. hard to for me to believe that landrace stock has not been cross breed from the people who have been cultivating it.
surely theve cought on to breeding and cross breeding by now..(i know us native americans sure did )to think that one farmer of mj in africa would not trade with others of the middle east or peoples of egypt ..to me isvastly overlooked...i'm sure theres plenty of breeding going on..those folks have been doing it there for thousands of years only to better there product correct?

my
honest blunt opinion..i dont think there is such thing left in todays cultures. unless you travel the world, and come across, uncultivated species. then..your cookin with greese.

cottons, i was a zoologist for a while lol i feel exactly what your sayin..but those animals are rare, and under non cultivation. non captive breed species.
not much mj in the world that grows un cultivated cause its an annual plant

I'll be cutting down quotes to the minimum i'll be replying to, just to shorten the length of this post

Quote: Originally Posted by IGotTheCottons

TGR... Thanks for all that info, dude! It seems I have a bit more reading to do than I initially thought, lol.

The more you know, the more you find out you dont know unfortunately lol. At least thats how ive found things

Quote: Originally Posted by IGotTheCottons

"According to the definition in the encyclopedia of plant genetic resources, a landrace is an early, cultivated form of a crop species, evolved from a wild population, and generally composed of a heterogeneous mixture of genotypes. Therefore a cannabis landrace is a marijuana plant that has been geographically isolated from the possibility of cross-breeding with any other marijuana strain of a similar plant species."

If that's the case, that would make them more stable, no?

Geographically isolated yes, but it even says above, "composed of a heterogenous mixture of genotypes". For them to be uniform they would be composed of homogeneous mixture of genotypes. Landrace strains are openly pollinated, so working with heterogeneity there will always therefore be variations.

Quote: Originally Posted by IGotTheCottons

So do you have links to other resources that say otherwise? Or maybe go a little bit more in depth? I'm not saying your wrong... I just wanna see where you're getting your info, so I can read up on it, too.

I apologise in advance i realise this answer is in effect a cop out....

In short, no offhand sorry i dont have any links m8. I dont save links , if youre confused by what im trying to put across be it due to my own fumblings with trying to put across a thought process in written form, or due to contradicting evidence found by your own research, please say though and i will do my best to try again

I have also been lucky enough to visit places and farmers who use landrace genetics (specifically more in south east asia, but i've been other places aswell). So my thoughts are often based on my own experiences, which are hard to back up here lol. I dont by any means assume that my limited experiences are infact correct on everything, but of course they are going to influence my opinion, if u know what i'm saying ?

I can however tell you with certainty, that any thai, laos, vietnamese, or myanmar (burma) landrace strains i've come across, hold quite a substantial amount of variance. This is also true for most african strains i've seen, though my experience with them is even more limited .....

Quote: Originally Posted by IGotTheCottons

To me, it just seems unnatural (I know some plants will do it automatically, if left without being pollinated... I'm moreso against the commercial methods of dousing the plants with acid, or stressing them to the point where they hermi).

And you are perfectly free and correct to hold that viewpoint, this isnt something i feel very comfortable discussing as its more down to a personal belief rather than right or wrong

Quote: Originally Posted by custom

Grim, holy shit were you been my ninja? aint seen you in a while man! glad your posting again

Hey cotton m8 , life outside of cannabis unfortunately took hold for a while and i've been away from both my grow and my home . Nearlly finished up now though and i'll be returning to both hopefully very soon . You got some great points there on borders, i am not up to date on america's bordering control by any means , and i agree with your viewpoint of fems

Quote: Originally Posted by custom

sour 60 been worked out by mdanzig for 7 years using some really bad ass genetics.

I'll be tasting some sour 60 in about 2 weeks, am looking forward to it, have heard much

Quote: Originally Posted by IGotTheCottons

...And that's all I was saying about landraces... When a strain is geographically isolated, after many generations, the offspring will be very similar to each other.
I meant it more in a way that the wide range of variation you'd get, say from a sativa/indica hybrid that you've taken to F2's (for example) will not be present... That, for the most part, the landraces will be fairly consistent with one another.

Oh i agree you will see much more variance in an f2 of an indica sativa cross. However this can even be location dependant, as you can find both species living close in certain parts so you'll find natural indica sativa f2's .

Going back to your example on the animal kingdom, i'm by no means a zoologist, so i only touch on this subject as you mentioned it, sterility between species stops alot of variance, even if two species can breed, their offspring may not necessarily be able to. So this cuts down on variance. Also as a seperate point most animals dont have a human influence in their breeding. And taking animals that do, you can see the variance that occurs

Quote: Originally Posted by IGotTheCottons

I'm not always the best at getting out what I'm trying to say, so that could be where it's happening, lol

Nether am i m8, i find it very hard to communicate a thought processes , your doing well so far though .....unless i'm misunderstanding

Quote: Originally Posted by custom

to think that one farmer of mj in africa would not trade with others of the middle east or peoples of egypt ..to me isvastly overlooked...i'm sure theres plenty of breeding going on..those folks have been doing it there for thousands of years only to better there product correct?

Indeed, it would be foolish to think otherwise, but travel took much longer periods up until recent times, but yes i most definitely agree with you



It wouldnt let me post all this as one post so i had to double post, sorry

Quote: Originally Posted by custom

my
honest blunt opinion..i dont think there is such thing left in todays cultures. unless you travel the world, and come across, uncultivated species. then..your cookin with greese.

cottons, i was a zoologist for a while lol i feel exactly what your sayin..but those animals are rare, and under non cultivation. non captive breed species.
not much mj in the world that grows un cultivated cause its an annual plant

Haha dude... I didn't even think of that... But it definitely makes sense...

Dude... Talkin about this with you and Grim makes me feel like a bit of a dumb ass, lol. But that's ok... Realizing how much I don't know, only makes me want to learn more.

Quote: Originally Posted by The Grim Reefer

Geographically isolated yes, but it even says above, "composed of a heterogenous mixture of genotypes". For them to be uniform they would be composed of homogeneous mixture of genotypes. Landrace strains are openly pollinated, so working with heterogeneity there will always therefore be variations.

So if landraces are heterogenous... How do you get strains that are homogeneous? I understand that you have to work them, some... But wouldn't it be very difficult to get homogeneous offspring, from heterogenous parents?

Quote: Originally Posted by The Grim Reefer

Oh i agree you will see much more variance in an f2 of an indica sativa cross. However this can even be location dependant, as you can find both species living close in certain parts so you'll find natural indica sativa f2's .

I can see how that could be... Now that people have been actively cross-breeding for a long ass time... But prior to that, geographic isolation would make all the strains in a given locations fairly uniform, no? You can see that happen on islands, a lot... A species will make it to the island, where the isolation will eventually cause that species to change... And time will eventually lead to a new species, which produces uniform offspring... Pygmy Sloths are an example of this - as are Golden Lanceheads... It almost happened with people, too (hobbits) - but a volcanic eruption took out the entire race, lol.

But yeah... I guess human intervention has made it all but impossible to find anything even close to the 'originals'. Damn selective cross-breeding. LoL!

Quote: Originally Posted by The Grim Reefer

Nether am i m8, i find it very hard to communicate a thought processes , your doing well so far though .....unless i'm misunderstanding

Indeed, it would be foolish to think otherwise, but travel took much longer periods up until recent times, but yes i most definitely agree with you



It wouldnt let me post all this as one post so i had to double post, sorry

Yeah, I think we're on the same page, now... Haha... When I was asking for good sources for landraces, I knew there would be some variety... What I was mostly looking for were strains that weren't bred with strains from another country, lol. A lot of the "landraces" I saw were 75/25 mixes, and the 25 was a strain from a completely different area... I don't mind 1 Thai mixed with another Thai... Or 1 African plant, mixed with another African plant from the same region... So maybe I should have mentioned that sooner, lol. What I'm looking for are strains that are a true representation of the area they're from.

I hope that helps, lol. If not I can try explaining again... Like I said... I'm not always the best at getting my thoughts across.

no reason to feel that way bro..you learn and are learning..take it in..reason..logic..thats not dumbass at all bro
dumbasses can not think and reason..lol or see 50-50..
but cottons can
i think this thread ended up really good..the truth about landraces in todays market..
but i'll still keep my eyes open..i seen a grow from a retired vet from nam..and he swears the mekong high from dutch passion is pure nam bud..said he hasnt seen shit like it since he was in nam..
its a fem..but that could be a good thing as we talked about before..
selfed landrace so really really close to the original with no other genetics stirring in there..
worth a shot..

Werd man... I feel ya... And I agree, this has unwittingly turned into a really good discussion... Mad respect to you and Grim for showing me that I'm more of a n00b than I thought, lol. It's inspired me to learn even more... So a good thing, over all.

Interesting read guys!

I've been looking for some landrace beans recently and settled on afropips Malawi Gold, cant find any for love nor money though!

Cant add anything to this thread as i'm a noob lol, but if I find any beans i'll whack 'em up in case any ones interested.

TRUE WEED - CannaBay - CannaBay.Org ::

Quote: Originally Posted by trueweed

TRUE WEED - CannaBay - CannaBay.Org ::

you really made an account just to advertise... loser lol